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Remote Viewing


President, Psi-Tech Corporation

Interview June 14, 1996

Art Bell Radio Show


This transcription is verbatim. Some limitations based on web site transfer and recording audibility are included. Efforts have been made to be accurate. Question marks indicate something which could not be deciphered (or spelled) for certain. This transcript will be posted to the Art Bell web page at www.artbell.com.

[Begin transcript]

ART BELL Well I got a fax from Major Dames. No, nothing disappointing. It ended with the phrase, "Hold on to your hat." And that's what I would advise all of you to do this morning, hold on to your hat. 'Cause what you're about to hear may shock you, upset you, scare you, as a matter of fact I guess I ought to issue the standard, "If this kind of thing scares you, turn off your radio now." Go listen to something else, watch television, occupy your mind with something that uh, that won't bother you, because this might. Major Dames is head of Psi-Tech, and you're about to find all about --well, I guess he'll never tell us _all_ about Psi-Tech -- but, as much as we can pry from Major Dames. So stand by for that.


ART BELL So in a moment, Psi-Tech's Major Ed Dames.


ART BELL Alright. Major Dames has a web site. It is www.transition-3000.de. And um, I know Keith is out there and will rush to put in a link, right Keith? And here he is, from Southern California, Major Ed Dames. Major, are you there?

ED DAMES I'm here, it's my distinct pleasure to be here with you.

ART BELL Oh, I'm so glad to have you back. You're a lot of fun -- well, fun might not be the right word. Ah, you're very interesting to have on the air. I got a fax earlier today from somebody who said "Art! Retired Major Ed Dames is not what he seems. I think you should ask him about connections to military intelligence operations on the air." Well {laughs} there's never been any doubt about that, but the last time we had you on we didn't have time to go into so much of your history, but uh, I think we ought to, this is not something you hide, is it?

ED DAMES Well no, it's not at all

ART BELL Well this guy who sent the fax seemed to uh, feel that you were hiding your connections from the Defense Intelligence Agency and um, and uh, the pentagon and so forth... and in fact, let's hear a little history of when you were in the military.

ED DAMES Well, I enlisted as a paratrooper in 1967. I took a short break to go to Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley where I was the uh, distinguished military graduate in Berkeley's ROTC program in 1978, and after being commissioned for some time with the second Army Calvary regiment in Nurenburg Germany as an electronic warfare officer, I was recruited from that assignment uh, to go into the world of black intelligence. And uh, there my odyssey began.

ART BELL Do they come to you by the way and tap you on the shoulder and say, we've got special work you, or can you talk about how that happens?

ED DAMES Only in the very elite units uh, some of the sexy jobs in the mil -- and by the way, it's the CIA and the Army that collect intelligence, the others analyze, but it's the Army and the CIA that actually have intelligence officers. Uh, for the very uh, uh, the sexy jobs, you have to be a water walker, uh, [? ] officer, but for the extremely elite units you are tapped on the shoulder. I was tapped on the shoulder for three very elite units.

ART BELL And what were these units?

ED DAMES Uh, let's see, the last one uh, just prior to my retirement in 1991 I cannot talk about; the uh, two prior to that uh, were very interesting. The first, beginning in 1980 -- 1979 -- I'm sorry, 1983... 1980 actually, had me as a targeting officer, at the officer of secretary of defense level, at the national agency level. My job there was to choose among America's intelligence collection priorities, mostly those were weapons of mass destruction, [?] weapons of mass destruction, and to select targets, and to engineer penetration missions uh, using any means at my disposal, and uh, carte blanche when it came to funding -- [?...] orchestrate the successful uh, uh, penetration of those targets -- that is, facilities programs, people, those kinds of things.

ART BELL When you say select targets, you mean you were the guy who said uh, where the important defense facilities were, how many megatons would be placed on it, that sort of thing?

ED DAMES No, I'm talking about intelligence targeting. That means that, for instance, what really are the parameters of a certain ICBM, the [?F18] missile, what does it really have inside of it, and uh, how are we going to get that information -- should we choose this target, or should we look at say, uh, another country's biological warfare program. Those decisions are were left to me, and also, the uh, actual execution of the mission after I uh, I organized our teams and uh, um, infrastructures to [?] and to adjudicate the problem.

ART BELL Did these involve on the ground, in-country assets?

ED DAMES They involved everything; they involved boxes in the sky that look down and through buildings, they involved agents underground and, and training case officers to, to manage those agents they involved uh, extremely uh, sophisticated technologies, and sometimes by hook or by crook, all those things did not work.

ART BELL Right. And, and so, I guess that brings -- at some point, you got converted from that sort of intelligence work to what we know as -- and we'll explain in a moment -- remote viewing. Uh, how in the world -- can you talk about how that project got started, the genesis of it?

ED DAMES Yes, uh, I can in both a general and a specific way, but the specifics aren't uh, aren't that interesting -- essentially the CIA and the Army saw some promise in using naturally gifted psychics to explore remotely at a, at a distance, um, foreign intelligence problems. And uh, an experiment was begun at Stanford Research Institute in the late 1970's under the auspices of Dr. Harold Puthoff and the remote viewing laboratory there, to take a look at the performance of some of these natural psychics. And it was deemed by the CIA and later by the Army that there was something worthy of being looked at, so money was thrown at that, a few million dollars, a, a year, actually a couple million dollars a year for the first several years. And uh, what we were looking for was one, proof that the capability existed, and two, validation that uh, it could useful against [inter?] intelligence operations, and that's essentially where the money began to uh, throw --

ART BELL Alright, I saw Stansfield Turner, former CIA head, affirm, uh, on a videotape that you sent, it was a Seattle story I think, He affirmed, "Yes. This works." -- Uh, "Yes," he said, "We had one psychic, for example, describe specific military installations inside the Soviet Union, information that turned out to be in detail correct. "So, so he said it works. And then there was the head of the Navy, at the time, they interviewed as well, and he said, "Yes, there is such an operation underway, no, I won't talk about it. And I can't talk about it. "So everybody way up is affirming that all this went on but they still won't talk about it, will they?

ED DAMES Uh, it's -- never have I seen a black program, and this was very, uh, this was very classified at the time, only a handful of people in America were read on, briefed on the project -- never have I seen an intelligence program subject to such ostracism and revulsion by so many officials, and yet, uh, so attractive to so many others. We often called ourselves -- I was the Operations and Training Officer for the unit, I [?] training officer because there were breakthrough techniques developed that I can talk about, uh, if you'd like -- uh, this program was, was connected in people's minds with the occult. For instance, uh, most people are familiar with the Presidential Foreign Intelligence Board. And uh, this, the head of this group in uh, the early 1980's was approached by uh, a colleague of mine and was briefed on the existence of my unit. This man went sheet-white and said that man should not know things until he died. And at that time we closed the books up and said well that's all we have Sir, uh, we're out of here... {laughs}

ART BELL Would you say the military and the pentagon and so forth, keep all of this secret and won't talk about it because of its sensitive nature, or because it is, to them, an embarrassment?

ED DAMES At one time the Army, the Army unit was extremely effective, and the effectiveness should have been, the limit, the extent of that effectiveness was classified and rightly so, we were very good at penetrating targets. But for most of the years of our operation it was kept under wraps because it was either experimental, or it was a potential embarrassment to the program directors themselves.

ART BELL Alright, if you would, give now everybody, not everybody knows what remote viewing is, so give us remote viewing 101 short version if you can.

ED DAMES Let me mention first that prior to its discovery in 1983, uh, the Army, my team, used altered states, and that is, and we would have uh,agents if you will, this is natural psychics from within our own ranks, lying down on a bed in a darkened room, they were wired up to electronic equipment, we would be watching for certain things, whole body states for instance, there, as most people know, there, there is an electric flow through one's body. When this electric flows from head to foot when there was [180 degrees?] voltage shift, phase shift, we generally assumed that someone was on target, that is in an altered state, and our agents were trained against military targets, many different types of targets, uh, knowns, so that they could be provided with feedback before they were set against uh, unknowns, uh --

ART BELL So in other words you, you would go after [?] or whoever he is in Moscow, and that would be your target, and you would, you would literally try to see -- define what it is -- do you, when you're on target, see what he sees, see what's around him, get a general picture, -- are you able to actually read his mind -- what do you do?

ED DAMES Well again let me get, hark back to the early days where the seven uh, individuals from the Army's ranks were in the altered states, and when one is in an altered state -- I used those techniques prior to the discovery of the thing that I teach now -- you uh, an observer hears your speech blurred, you are not uh, operating at the same pace that you would normally operate in waking state, and we practiced against known targets so that we could validate and calibrate

each in - we could calibrate each individual, uh, team member, that really wasn't uh, that's what the, the extent of remote viewing was in those days, in an altered state like that, indeed, one could be much aware of the mind-state of an individual and their surroundings, but we had lots of problems with regard to dimensionality and positioning, we were not sure -- for instance, and I'll give you an example, uh there was Joe on the television, I think his name was Joe McMoneagle uh, he was a uh, a warrant officer uh, assigned to uh, our early team, Joe was a natural psychic, and he was employed by me against a number of intelligence operations. When Joe would report on a room next door, I would go to the satellite photography, look down at the light table, and indeed, there was a next door, but it was down the street, so Joe did not, was not aware of that, those are the kinds of problems you have with space, distances directions vectors, [?] those kinds of things.

ART BELL Depth perception even?

ED DAMES Oh yes, it's as if you were looking, uh it's very myopic, as if you were looking through a tunnel, tunnel vision, black and grey, very little color vision. Ah, but it's real-time, and uh, it can, it was used, uh not extremely effectively, but in, in good stead in a couple of different scenarios. We employed people who used altered states to take a look at the radio station in Tehran Iran prior to our aborted inva - invasion - uh, our aborted rescue attempt.

ART BELL You looked for, and tried to find the hostages, too, didn't you?

ED DAMES We were looking for the hostages, we were looking for uh, how many weapons were there, what were the nature of the weapons, those kind of problems are solved now, although, albeit with a lot of work, with uh, what my company employs, that's"Technical Remote Viewing. "Technical remote viewing is uh, an evolution of the discovery which was called, termed "Coordinate Remote Viewing" when it was discovered at Stanford Research Institute using Army funds in 1983. As Operations Officer I ironed out the wrinkles, we essentially took this ball and ran with it, and worked out the bugs. Uh, those people who discovered, those people who discovered those techniques uh, were really the, uh, the Wright Brothers of remote viewing, and uh, we're flying a much faster aircraft now, metaphorically.

ART BELL Hmmn. Um, I know that you also did -- so that the audience understands, because they will not have all seen this -- you did work, significant work during the Gulf War, didn't you?

ED DAMES My company did, actually.

ART BELL Your company -- well that's right, I'm jumping you ahead, perhaps when I shouldn't, but it's important I understand what has been done, now what I saw in the Seattle television news story, was that A, you looked at Iraq and you looked at Baghdad prior to the beginning of the war, for chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, strategic, terrible stuff --

ED DAMES Weapons, stay-behind weapons of mass destruction.

ART BELL -- and essentially in Baghdad, found nothing serious. Now this was all before the war. But you also found two canisters full of biological weapons at another site in Iraq, is that correct?

ED DAMES Let me backtrack. First of all, before I get into our actual operations, I have to talk about Technical Remote Viewing and why we switched from the use of altered states, why I _ordered_ the team to use Technical Remote Viewing, Coordinate Remote Viewing.

ART BELL Alright, why did you -- good question --

ED DAMES Because the discovery was uh, I'll give you background, this was a structure, a structure of how the unconscious mind communicates with, to the conscious mind, the conscious awareness, a grammar and a syntax if you will, it's very much like a language, if you do not have a grammar and a syntax for language, one cannot communicate. You need that. And just as language is a natural ability, remote viewing is a natural ability also, the way that we do it, and the way that the discovery had, a very natural process. This natural structure was what was discovered. It was the way that the -- this was a protocol, a series of protocols that could be taught, and when I and four others in an initial prototype team were trained in this technique, we, we performed better than the best natural psychics that ever _lived_, on record, uh, that was how our performance was, and so this was a glowing success, we took this success into the black world with us, and we, we ironed out the bugs over a period of many years. So that we could be not only be consistent against the target -- because this was the problem with natural psychics, such as, as uh, Mr. McMoneagle and other naturals in the unit --

ART BELL Alright but hold it right there, bottom of the hour, we'll be right back to you and we'll pick it up at that point, the transition from electronics and altered states to remote viewing as we know it today. Major Ed Dames, just right back -- [break]

ART BELL Back now to Major Dames, uh, Major, I want to be sure that I understand the difference between altered states and remote viewing as it is presently -- uh, what kind of electronics, if I were in that early stage of remote viewing, and I was going to go into an altered state, what would be hooked up to me, how would I enter this altered state?

ED DAMES You would have electrodes hooked up from head to toe, on your head and on your toes, literally, and uh, they would be hooked up to a volt meter or an oscilloscope measuring head to toe voltage, full body polarity uh, shift is what we're after, AND you can do this with anyone. All of us are naturally gifted to one degree or another, some much, much more than others. What we did in the military unit was to take these new discoveries, these protocols, and -- that are trainable - and uh, to train teams to do this very precisely and very rig - under uh, very rigorous conditions, the same conditions that we, we train civilians here, 20 a year, in our Beverly Hills office, to do - to become so consistent they can hold a target, a person place a thing or an event, in their mind, and preclude the inrush of imagination and personal analysis of the data. So uh, the old altered states days are gone as far as operational remote viewing goes. And also --

ART BELL Wait, wait, was there the use of che -- did you use any chemicals?

ED DAMES We never used any chemicals. The Soviet GRU, the Soviet military intelligence did, and uh, they killed a couple of young troops doing that, they attempted to induce altered states using drugs uh, thinking that they could produce uh, good intelligence -- but in fact, you must be highly alert, awake and alert, uh, a good time to work is after that second cup of coffee in the morning for most of us, uh, the same way that you'd work a normal job, because you're trying to listen to this little signal, I use the term listen metaphorically, trying to perceive a very small signal, and uh, if you're in an altered state, for instance uh, taking LSD or Halcyon or something like that, indeed you have the whole universe at your disposal, but it's all coming in through your modem, or your [?...cage?] if you're an experimental clinical psychologist, at one time, and you can't uh, manage that. Technical Remote Viewing, the, the technique that we use in our company, is "attention management." Highly structured way of managing your attention so that you recognize that data that's associated with the target as opposed to your own imagination, and as opposed to your own analysis of the data.

ART BELL In other words, you've gotta separate your own -- well, imagination is the right word -- uh, from what you're getting so that you get the pure thing.

ED DAMES And you have to hold target contact at the same time, so it's very much uh, analogous to flying a plane for instance, where the uh, the structure becomes your instrument, and if you're flying at night you have to trust your skill at reading those instruments --

ART BELL -- again, there was some serious skill involved, because you did look I guess at Baghdad, said that it was clear --

ED DAMES We did not l -- it wasn't Baghdad, it was Kuwait Art {Art: Kuwait, I'm sorry}, the National Security Council, 48 hours prior to the entrance of the Allies into Kuwait, also we had recon units in there as you might guess [?...] and they uh, were reporting all clear except uh, the NSC was concerned that with the pullout of Baghdad troops, of Iraqi troops, there may have been a stay-behind weapon of mass destruction, either something like the equivalent of a tactical nuclear weapon half a meg, one meg, or a biological or chemical weapon. And uh, that's when my company was asked uh, to take a look.

ART BELL So this is after you were gone from the military, you had established uh, Psi-Tech, and they came to you on a private basis and said take a look will you?

ED DAMES That's correct.

ART BELL You said OK and you found it to be clear.

ED DAMES Actually I have to, I have to correct you, I was, I was still in the military when I founded the company, much to the chagrin of Defense Intelligence Agency.

ART BELL I bet they hated that.

ED DAMES Oh, more than you might imagine.

ART BELL {laughs} At any rate they came to you, and, and you took a look and you said it was clear, in fact it did turn out to be clear, but in the video piece I saw, they said you found a couple of canisters. What were those and where were they?

ED DAMES Actually, when you work -- uh, when you use technical remote viewing it's uh, uncannily similar to a database search or any library search, so that you can go in looking for one search term, which might indicate how the, the, how information is organized in the universe typically. We call that place from whence we derive data "the matrix," but that's our own, our own, in our own vernacular. This library, if there is information about some topic or subject

in one spot, and uh, the information happens to lead you somewhere else that has a say, very similar search term, then you're going to pick that up. In this case, the term biological warfare and Iraq, the idea of an Iraqi biological warfare weapon, took us to Iraq proper, not to Kuwait City

{Art: I see}, and there we found the pro - the biological warfare program hidden in this, [the?] agricultural dept., and uh, I was actually the biological warfare case officer, so together with uh, Doctor Barry [Erlick?] at the Armed Forces Medical Intelligence Center, we demonstrated to the

National Security Council that biochemical warfare was, offensive biochemical warfare program was going on in the Soviet Union, and uh, as a result of that uh, we briefed the President of the United States, and we [?...] up the BTAC, the Biological Threat Analysis Center, Fort Detrich

Maryland, the former home of the Army's own offensive chemical program, biological warfare program.

ART BELL Wow. Um, so I, I thought it was important that the audience understand a little background, um, in what you have done, and that you were involved with the military, people

have been, as I said, sending me faxes saying things like 'you have no idea what this man was doing, he was involved' -

ED DAMES I'm [actually?] proud of my background, and the job I did for my country, and uh the taxpayers should note that uh, the technology that my company possesses today, they essentially paid for.

ART BELL {laughs} Well, I guess we're happy about that. Um, listen, there's one thing that you said you couldn't talk about, so I've gotta ask you about it. You were asked, "Well you can read a mind, or you can read an area, see an area, pick a target, uh, keep hold of it and know what's going on, but can you go beyond that, in other words, can you actually _affect_ somebody else's thinking? "And your answer was "Yes, but it requires electronics, machinery," and you said, "I can't go into those."

ED DAMES We cannot do that as remote viewers. We are -- remote viewing is generally, unless you want to get down to the quantum, uh [?] level, is generally a passive act, um, remote viewing, ESP, clairvoyance, those kinds of things; the mind over matter, uh, psychokinesis, the Uri Geller effect, that is the active side of the psi phenomenon. The psychotronics is the area that you're talking about right now, where ostensibly, either mind combined with a machine or machine alone affects another mind or affects a body, a living thing. That area is called psychotronics.


ART BELL The only way I can imagine that would occur is if, uh, the signals that come from the brain are able to be in effect received and amplified and transmitted. Would that be fairly close to what's done?

ED DAMES Well in the original -- when the Czechs who coined the term psychotronic tried to sell the Soviets, uh, their Soviet patrons on this idea, that is, they tried to sell them actually a bill of goods, that's how this whole program got started in the, in the late 60's, the Czechs attempted to

convince the Soviets that they could do that, and in fact they never could. Nor has it been done to date. What _can_ be done however, is by pure use of electronics, you can affect the human nervous system, and you can do certain things with the human brain waves, and uh, if you'd like me

to get into that kind of technology, I can, I can talk about that.

ART BELL Alright. Well when you say "affect brain waves," do you mean general patterns of thinking, or you can induce a specific idea into a brain that would not otherwise think of it itself?

ED DAMES Hypothetically, both.

ART BELL God that's frightening. Um, so heads of state, Bill Clinton, tentatively Boris Yeltsin -- by the way, do you uh, have you uh, looked at what's going to occur in Russia at all? -- the elections are coming up Sunday, any idea what's gonna happen?

ED DAMES Uh, no, we pretty much shy away from political things like that, we stick uh, as much as we can, with science and technology targets, although we did help the FBI look for the other Unabomber, there's someone else that got mixed in with uh -- with uh, mailing things, that got mixed

in with --

ART BELL Yes... I heard you were involved in that.

ED DAMES Yeah. Uh, there's -- we just wanna make sure they get uh, both of them. {laughs}

ART BELL So, there's somebody else out there, still?

ED DAMES Uh, yeah, there's somebody else that uh -- Kaczinsky {sp?} was not responsible for all those packages in the mail, there were uh, a couple of other culprits, and uh, those are the ones we tracked for the Bureau. They'll be rolled up eventually. So that's an example of something that

is not science and technology oriented, but here, we felt uh, the need to assist uh, my erstwhile colleagues.

ART BELL Now while you say that your targets are non-political, my guess would be that even if they were political, you would tell me that.

ED DAMES Uh, I'm not sure I follow you Art.

ART BELL Well, in other words, I asked you, do you ever work on things like Boris Yeltsin, the election in Russia, and so forth, and you said, no, we concentrate mainly on non-political targets.

ED DAMES That's correct.

ART BELL But, what I'm saying is, even if the reality were that you did occasionally concentrate on political targets, you would tell me that you didn't.

ED DAMES That's n - n - negative, I would _never_ lie to you, I would never lie to the American public. I would -- if I could not tell you for reasons, then I would say, I can't talk about it, but I would not lie to you.

ART BELL Alright, alright, alright, good enough. Um, I appreciate that, it's just that that -- [?] you know, I would imagine our own politicians listening to this, would potentially be frightened out of their socks --

ED DAMES It was extremely frightening to members of congress that were briefed on the existence of our program [?] the heads of the senate, and the house intelligence committees,

they were frightened [to death?] because uh, in a world, uh, in an ideal world where there were no secrets uh, politicians are a -- [would have?] a very difficult time surviving in that world, they were the ones that were the most frightened of all.

ART BELL Yeah, they have a tough enough time as it is. So if uh, Bob Dole's campaign people came to Psi-Tech and said look, we're in trouble with this campaign, we've got this guy

Clinton, uh, we need to know what's going on, and they laid cash on the table at Psi-Tech -- now I know you've done work, for example, looking at Japanese car companies, uh, for American car companies [?] --

ED DAMES Actually that was serendipitous, we were approach by a very large automobile company that wanted to uh, re - help us - they wanted us to help them research hydrogen power

plants, and to take a look at some of their potential designs, to see if they were dead-end uh, research pathways. In so doing, when you go into this library in the sky if you will, what we call the matrix, the uh, the un, the collective unconscious, we pulled out designs that were Japanese and

German, and so it was serendipitous, it was no intentional, that's called uh, you know, corporate espionage, or the uh, the more polite term these days is 'business research. '

ART BELL Mmmn, 'business research' -- but -- so Psi-Tech does that.

ED DAMES No, we absolutely do not. In [those?] days, we did uh, work for a corporation um, like that, but that was 1990, 91, we no longer do that. Strictly science and technology.

ART BELL Think it's unethical?

ED DAMES Absolutely. Absolutely. Although, I am asked constantly by my students, you know, what, what would happen if some - you trained someone and they went off and did that, and I say well, you know, I'm not responsible for what students do with the technology once they take it away.

ART BELL In other words, uh, you're like a gun manufacturer.

ED DAMES Some people have described that uh, described me as that, but I have to mention that if you know, the same people, if you have two opposing sides they're both technical remote viewers they're looking at each other, there are no secrets.

ART BELL Well, you've had a lot of students. Do you uh, without naming any because I wouldn't want you to, uh, are any of them out there doing this kind of work?

ED DAMES Yes, they're out there doing the work, uh, I've got, the most -- I just trained a team of about ten Germans, extremely good remote viewers, and they're putting together their own team.

ART BELL Suppose again I was on the Bob Dole campaign and I came in and laid cash on the table and I said alright, I understand you can't do it, give me some names.

ED DAMES No I would never give you the names of uh, my students. Unless the students volunteered their name.

ART BELL Hmmn. Interesting. Ah, you know, knowing that this works, and we've given the public a lot of examples --

ED DAMES Now - now Art, let me uh, let me qualify this, I have students who would talk to you on the air, but uh, they, they, and they would give you their names, but I would not volunteer them up --

ART BELL Uh, even with a little pile of cash from the Dole campaign?

ED DAMES Absolutely not.

ART BELL Alright. Ah, boy, you're in a real minefield of ethical dilemma with this business, now it is a business, um, and --

ED DAMES It's the only business of its kind in the world, we have a monopoly on accuracy. And uh, we're not an Institute, a Center, a Foundation, uh, we have to deliver, and so [?] in

the world to guarantee 100% --

ART BELL Actually -- I was about to say that -- you did, and do, guarantee 100% accuracy? !

ED DAMES That's correct. But on the reports we deliver to clients, 100% accuracy, the way we do that, is to take trained remote viewers, who are, who are rigorously trained, and we run controls, double check our work, and uh we run controls, and uh, then -- neutral -- we independently work targets, the neutrally collaborating data from independent viewers, is, is the overlap of data, is what we guarantee to be 100% correct.

ART BELL How many of you at Psi-Tech are "resident" viewers, I guess that would be a way to put it huh?

ED DAMES Seven, and we have access to uh, about uh, 25 more who are part-time.

ART BELL So if you've got a really big job, a really big contract -- um, how do you decide um, what jobs to take on and what jobs to refuse, and roughly what percentage of jobs do you refuse, versus those you'd take on?

ED DAMES In the last two years, I have uh, been approached by a number of captains of industries who wanted us to work various things, and what I'm doing is, suggesting that rather

than hiring Psi-Tech to solve a problem, that they send their chief engineers, key scientists, uh not CEOs, because CEOs don't have the time to go back and apply this, we train the engineers and scientists from corporations and send them back two at a time, so that we work the problem in the classroom, after about day 6 or 7 of training, it's a 9-day course, it's actually 10 days with a one day break, students need it, midcourse -- we solve the problem, if it's a simple problem, uh, uh, for instance, looking for design flaws, or uh, or other things -- in the classroom and send back to the

corporation two trained viewers, so they have in-house assets, and don't have to necessarily rely upon Psi-Tech to solve problems in the future, unless it's a complex -- the only contracts we would accept these days are ones that are important to us, 'cause -- and uh, for instance, uh, cures for AIDS, or uh, where the Ebola virus is uh, hides when it's latent, those kind of things.

ART BELL You've got your own agenda.

ED DAMES That's -- uh yes, yes I do.

ART BELL Major you know, uh, after I did the first program with you, I decided to try a little experiment, and I brought an item in here, uh, and I, I've never done this kind of thing before, I brought an item in, set it on my Ham rig, and sat and stared at it, and stared at it, and concentrated on it, and invited the audience to try and figure out what I was staring at. And I have -- I've never felt so invaded in my entire life -- you could feel eyes, and my wife could too, all over this house, and -- you know, that's not really evidence, but let me finish -- but then people were sending

me faxes, and faxes and faxes, of what this item was, and two people Major, hit this item flat on the head, one of them so much so it scared the hell out of me. Let me tell you what it was. It was a little marble uh, plaque, with my photograph on it, that had been laser -- you know put on there by a laser, in marble, with a little metal stand, and somebody sent me a fax showing this, with the little metal stand, with the exact curves, and that's when I said, "I think I've had enough. "I -- I've never seen anything like this in my life, it is absolutely impossible that out of the 100 or 200 replies I've had two people hit this dead on the nose, there's no way in hell they could hav e done it if they'd not been here.

ED DAMES Well there's two dynamics at work there. One is telepathy; uh, uh, that's what it used to be called 'Beaconing' in the laboratory -- if you are staring at an item and asking someone to read your thoughts, that's telepathy, they're telepathically picking up on what you're looking at. But the way we work is not telepathy. We actually go to where you are resident as a pattern of

information, hypothetically, in what we call the matrix, the collective unconscious, and where that specific item is. That item becomes our target. And I can teach children how to do this. This is a very very simple operation, and uh, there's an interesting science project that I teach uh, fifth

graders, and they do just this kind of thing, where the teacher tags an item in her home, goes and tells the student uh, that it's tagged, doesn't tell the student what it is, [?] girls and boys end up sketching the item. Very non-[?] to the science project boards, but --

ART BELL Anyway Major, I'm a believer, we're gonna break here for news at the top of the hour, you've got a little bit of time, relax, get a cup of coffee or something, we'll be right back to you. {Dames: Thank you.} From Psi-Tech, Major Ed Dames is my guest, we'll be right back.


ART BELL OK. We've spent the last hour establishing what remote viewing was, what it is today, what it has done, what the Major has done. This hour, we're gonna talk about some

things the Major knows. And I think a good place to begin is, I got a piece of email from the Major, I can't recall when it was, um, some weeks ago actually, um, you know I got something, I have something called 'Art's Parts,' what, are sent to me, ostensibly pieces of the crashed Roswell saucer, and we've been putting them through rigorous scientific testing, as a matter of fact the results, very anomalous results of that testing, are available to be seen on my web page now. Uh, and it's, it's remarkable material, [?] and magnesium layered, uh, in a way that has a lot of people

jumping, I don't want to get too far out of the game right now, uh, and some of the aluminum parts and the spectrography and the scanning microscope picture are all up on the Internet, www.artbell.com, and I suspect, if not already, and I know Keith, so he's probably got a link to the Major's web page already as well up there, so you'd be well to visit my web page and take a look, the complete scientific report is there, but I, I got a piece of email from the Major not long ago, couple weeks, three weeks ago, and you just mentioned in an offhand way Major, that you had had your team, for practice, or for fun, or for whatever reason working on my Roswell parts.

ED DAMES Yeah, [?] actually do that, [?] training, I train 20 people a year, and [?] in between contract work that we do, and uh, I used your um, your, your metallic object, metallic pieces as training targets.

ART BELL Hmmn! Well I want to know.

ED DAMES We have some preliminary results, but it will cost [?] though, watch it. {laughs}

[lack of clarity as Bell and Dames speak simultaneously]

ART BELL {laughs} It can easily be arranged.

ED DAMES Actually um, uh, let me tell you what, what I assumed that what we were doing was um, and uh, when, when my students are trained, they are not told what their targets are, they're trained in the blind, their unconscious is trained to do the work. Uh, it's similar to flying a plane

at night, uh, you have to rely on your instruments, and uh, you really can't, if you, if you do not know how to read those instruments, the uh, analogy here is if you do not understand the structure of remote viewing, you're going to slip off the target. Trainees are not allowed to graduate until they can get it right, every single time. So, as advanced training targets, [say?] six or seven, I slip a few trainees uh, Art's parts. When we do this, I've never seen those parts on your web page, so I sent a, I actually called them that, and uh, pieces uh, metallic pieces, and I called them [?] Art's Parts, the collective unconscious can do the rest, and we know that it can. Um, that uh, had some

interesting results. I assumed, as a, a former project officer for very secret projects, both aerospace and metallurgical, that we were probably dealing with scrap parts {Bell: Right.}, scrap electronic parts or something like that. As project manager, I had many scientists working for me, uh, university professors and industrialists, and they would be making things that I needed on the battlefield, in space or somewhere else, and I'd bring pieces of those back to my office, all of us were in positions similar to [?] had things like this, uh, gew-gaws and doo-dads around our office, sometimes we'd even bring them home, uh, unless they were radioactive. And uh, many times these projects failed, if a corporation, say [Alcor?] Corporation had a classified contract with the government to build something, make some new uh, uh, sheet metal, and that didn't work out right

because it was penetrated by the Tungsten bullet or something like that, [?] metal became scrap. I felt that that's what you were dealing with. Another case, something that's interesting to point out: the Russians, the former Soviets, their metallurgy was sometimes far superior to U. S. metallurgy {Bell: Right.}, don't forget they were making [titanium?] submarines, the [?], that we could not produce, so keep that in mind as we talk about this -- I -- as the results started to come in, and these are initial results -- but I do, I do want to talk about them.

ART BELL Alright.

ED DAMES OK. Uh, the parts are, are actually uh, they're land-based, earth-based, they're not alien. And uh, but they're uh, their story is very interesting, and I think I'll illustrate it with a, with a story. Let's call the story hypothetical for the moment. {Bell: OK.} A certain scientist, who I might know, is approached one day with some pieces, similar to Art's Parts, and he is asked, "How have you gotten a hold of alien technology? "And the scientist says, "Well, uh, I don't have alien technology." "Well we're looking at your blueprints for a specific thing that you submitted to the patent office, specific sets, parts, and uh, this happens to be the same thing that crashed in the desert about 1950, uh, alien spacecraft. "And the scientist says, "Well, no, I designed this myself. "Well, Art's Parts are about 16 years young. Uh, this is from a prototype vehicle that slipped back in time. Art's Parts are from a time machine. {Bell: Really?} Yeah. {Bell: I like that.} Yeah. About 11 or 12 years out there -- in fact, we can even become aware of the actual scientists that are working on that today, how's that for a paradox problem. This is a series of vehicles that the military team that I ran started to perceive uh, about 1984, 85, started to gain information on

these things -- essentially, let me put this uh, put -- make sure that this picture is set in your listener's minds: a group of scientists about ten years from now, perhaps less, happen to test a prototype design, which is spinning -- and this is very important, I'll get back to this in a moment,

the [?] physics of uh, of how this happened -- this device, instead of going up and out into space, disappeared. And it flies about two hundred miles from its test point in the Southwest desert, and crashes -- about 50 years earlier -- in the desert. Now, the people that find it, about 1950, the

individuals that find it cordon off the area -- and this was not a Roswell crash by the way, Roswell was alien, this was not, I'll get to that some other time -- they find this uh, these pieces, and they automatically assume, because it's probably four generations of technology ahead of anything they had in 1950, so it's alien [?..] --

[lack of clarity as Bell and Dames talk simultaneously]

ART BELL -- automatically, sure --

ED DAMES So they hold onto it, until one day somebody notices that a design that a certain scientist is submitting to the patent office matches this, "so it must be alien," right? {Bell: Huh.} The metallurgical processes that you see in front of you, and on the screen, are really not that

far from what we can do now, if we really wanted to put the money into it, we could produce the kinds of pressures that would be necessary to produce the kind of density in those kinds of alloys. It could be done, and I'm sure our technicians have uh, have said as much -- but they're not here yet, it slipped back.

ART BELL Well this uh, this [Bismuth?] um, um, piece of the supposed skin of the craft, whatever kind of craft it is, while it could be done, uh, I don't think it _has_ been done, we've had people checking very carefully, nobody has done it, they don't know what it could be, some sort of, um, superconductor, or collector of energy on the skin of a craft of some kind, so what you say could be.

ED DAMES It's about another generation of technology out there of technology. And uh, it just slipped back. I want to illustrate how this, this first uh, event occurred. In uh, phenomenology, there's an occasional report of when a tornado passes by a certain place, that later people find

pieces of straw and sometimes wood, uh, right [through?] glass windows, windows supposedly fused around the straw. It just so happens that the vortex that's created by tornados, when the tornado turns a specific way, at a certain angle depending on where it is, does something with time. Bends, shifts time, slows it down as the earth is turning, the earth turns into this place where two things begin to share the same space. Then the tornado moves away, and now they _do_ share the same space. This spinning, this vortex, and the angle of the vortex is very important to this discovery. Time travel of course as we know it now is most physicists say, would require the energy equivalent of a black hole to effect. Could be done but you need that. It's not within

our [tech phase?] to do it. Uh, and yet, there does seem to be a little trick that nature plays, uh at certain times, and uh, one of these prototype devices fell into that trick, and slipped back.

ART BELL Uh -- wow! And that's where my parts came from.

ED DAMES It would appear that your parts fit a class of objects that we in my company know to be those things, yes.

ART BELL {sound of amazement} Uh --

ED DAMES Time travel by the way, is uh, is quite a real thing out there in the cosmos, as far as we're concerned, you know, having had fifteen years of experience looking at things for NASA and NORAD that they don't talk about -- uh, vehicles, races that used time travel and teleportation, they

need time standards as you know, if you're traveling along a gravity uh, wave, or along a gravity surface, and you pop in somewhere, you need to know not only where you are but what time it is, and so Pulsars, and things similar to Pulsars are used to, to, as a, as a galactic time standard if you will, to know when you are, rather than just uh, where you are, in addition to where you are. Crop circles, for instance, are specifically used for on the ground registration marks, the crop circles that we talk about, [?] enigmatic to most people, for us in Psi-Tech we know what they are, they're

purposely put in perishable media, [general?] media, to last only one day, so that you know on the ground, right there in a local environment, a tactical environment if you will, what day it is. {Bell: Huh.} So that when you transit time again, and you see that specific crop circle that's in a registration of some type, you know what day you are in, because you know that in that book on that specific day, some uh, registration vehicle made that mark -- it's not a vehicle, [?...] we will make that Psi-Tech contract available to public via our transition 3000 web site in the future.

ART BELL Alright. Let us understand then, remote viewing does time travel of its own, in a sense.

ED DAMES It doesn't, it doesn't, time drops out of the equation. Mind is outside of time. There is no time in the collective unconscious. If I look at Art Bell's life as a remote viewer, as a technical remote viewer, I see you from birth to death, uh, and, and points in between, there is no

time there, you are a gestalt of information, a pattern of information resident in this collective unconscious. That's not to say you don't have a soul or a personality, of course you do. {Bell: Sure.} But in terms of, of information, this is an information collection technology, and there is no time involved. We look left to see the past, or right to see the future, metaphorically speaking, and we just download information.

ART BELL Well, we know about the past, everybody's very curious about the future, and the last time I had you on, you scared the hell out of me and everybody else, uh, as you looked to the right, and now, I want to underscore this, I guess we're gonna sort of repeat what you said last time, but

I want to underscore it, by saying that about, I think it was two or three days ago, ABC on the evening news Major, had a most remarkable, remarkable story about the plains states, our farm belt, and that story basically said, scientists have now determined that they were wrong, or may have been wrong, that our climate is much more tenuous, much more fragile, than we ever thought it was. They went way beyond that. They said there is a significant possibility, they now

believe, that we may be headed toward what they called "another dustbowl," and even went beyond that, and said they can see our plains states, our farm states, becoming deserts, not only that, but that that process is actually underway right now. And that's a frightening, frightening uh,

possibility, and the moment I saw it I almost fell off my couch, and I got a lot of other faxes of the same sort, hearkening back to what you said, what you see coming. Now, about ten years ago, that's quite some time ago, while you were working on other projects, you said you saw babies

dying. Is that right?

ED DAMES That's correct. Uh, the military team -- actually, again, as training officer I would provide the team with advanced training targets -- actually I was flipping in an enigma, we uh, I did not want my team to fall into an [?], to become bored with just working military uh, research

institutes and facilities, and I wanted to make sure that they had a wide variety of targets, so I would flip targets like this, under their noses --

ART BELL Same way they got Art's Parts.

ED DAMES The same way, yes, essentially that kind of thing. And we were picking up, we were looking into the future, and we were looking at certain things, and uh, in ways that we,

we do. Uh, I don't want to get into all the technologies tonight, but, but we -- the team was describing and sketching dying babies, uh, over wide areas, and uh, we, we traced back the source of the dying babies, and they were uh cows, cow's milk, cow's milk was killing the dying babies, and in later years, I'd say about four years ago, I had Psi-Tech take a look at the uh, the cause, the causal agent behind it, and it appears to be a virus in the milk, we think it's a bovine AIDS, we're not positive about that, but we think that it is something like a Bovine AIDS that's transmitted by dairymen's needles, the same needle that's used to inject each cow --

ART BELL An immune problem of some kind --

ED DAMES With the babies, yes, we think that the planet's immuno-suppressed, babies are immuno-suppressed, their mothers are immuno-suppressed, and now all the sudden they are toxicologically insulted with a virus that is similar to AIDS and just wreaks havoc with this [?] immune system of theirs, and we do see human babies dying in droves --

ART BELL Droves. Worldwide.

ED DAMES Worldwide, yes. Any country that, where babies drink cow's milk, and that's a lot of countries.

ART BELL That's a lot of countries. Uh, do you, do you, I guess I've gotta ask, do you come up with numbers, is there any way to know percentages, or ...

ED DAMES We can't come up with numbers, we can come up with

pie-chart types of percentages, alphanumerics and numerics

are beyond our capabilities, but we can get rough uh,

figures, and uh, we haven't done that in this case with any

country, in this particular case.

[lack of clarity as Bell and Dames speak simultaneously]

ART BELL Um, are you able to look then, beyond that to see

if that is alleviated, or if the situation worsens, or how

society uh, deals with this --

ED DAMES We have not looked at anything that, we have not

looked at the situation beyond that, I do not know if there

are any ameliorating factors or mitigating factors uh, vis-a-

vis that particular problem, so, I don't have that


ART BELL How far off is it?

ED DAMES Oh, it looks like it's within the next several years, we're coming up real close, one of the things that Psi-Tech is doing now is establishing milestones, timelines, so that when one event occurs, people will know what the next one is, and the time between them, so that they can prepare. Prepare meaning, take your babies off of cow's milk, start digging under the ground because heavy winds are coming, move from one area to another because you'll have no fresh water, those kind of [things?].

ART BELL I guess, you can look right to the future and left to the past, is it possible, uh, the past of course is known, it's a known quantity, so I would think that as you look into the past, uh with your trainees, with your residents, you can calibrate what you do to the left, can't you?

ED DAMES Uh, we can get distances, and uh, yeah, we can get distances in time for unknowns, for instance, if you give me something and you don't know where it was, what time it was fabricated, what era or age, we can establish that.

ART BELL What I'm referring to though is, and we're at the bottom of the hour now, there are known events in time, in the thread of time, as you look back you can calibrate what you see {Dames: That's correct.} -- that's what I wanted to know. {Dames: We can bracket the event.} Exactly. Major, stay right there, we'll be right back to you. Major Ed Dames, Psi-Tech's Ed Dames is with me, he'll be right back.


ART BELL Right back now to Major Ed Dames. Uh, Major, so you can look to the left, you can calibrate with history, and then, let us now again look to the right, again, hearkening back to, uh, what ABC ran about the farm belt, scared the hell

out of me, then I've got an Omaha Daily Herald story here that says "a longer look at Plains climates suggests an unsettling possibility," and they go into exactly the same thing here, now, one of the things you said to me in the fax you sent that got us going in the last show, was and the jet stream of course wriggles and writhes all over the place, but you say it's gonna come down on deck and there will be winds of between what, 150 and 300 miles an hour, on land --

ED DAMES Well, watch the jet stream, it's a really good uh, indicator for how chaotic the atmosphere's gonna quickly become, and it will, it may not come all the way down to the

deck, but it'll come close enough to furnish us with some very heavy duty microbursts, and some vicious storms, high, high, very serious winds, you'll need to be underground or in very solid structures when this happens, but moreover, the skies will become very dark over the mid-latitudes where thee winds are high, and that's going to preclude growing crops the way we do now, and there'll be no life --

ART BELL That's, that's what got to me about what ABC said, we're already on the way, we al -- we have crops in serious trouble, our wheat crop in our country now is in very serious trouble, cattle are being sold off pennies on the dollar, it's horrible, and this is, I guess, just the beginning?

ED DAMES It's just the beginning, yes. Uh, we, essentially damaged the earth's stratosphere, the earth's atmosphere beyond repair, there is not just a big ozone hole, what scientists generally are not aware of is that there's a deterioration on the upper levels of the troposphere, the upper levels of the earth's atmosphere now, in a, in a fashion very similar to metastasis, to a cancer that's eating

away, at the upper levels of the atmosphere, um, there aren't any remedial actions uh, that are good enough at this juncture, it's going to happen, so that's why it's, it's so grim --

ART BELL How soon?

ED DAMES Um, we're looking at the high winds beginning in about four and half to six years,uh, they're mentioned last time we spoke, it'll take about another year to complete our study, and uh, weather changes already are beginning, as you know, a year ago they started, we're going to see

bacteriological changes here quickly.

ART BELL Now you know it's interesting you mentioned that, because another news story that popped up a couple of days ago, on [Royders?], was, our government has suddenly cut loose with about 250 million dollars, a quarter billion dollars, to establish twelve early warning centers for new disease -- around the world Major -- a quarter million dollars, a serious amount of money to cut loose with in times like these -- uh, early warning centers for disease, and they're gonna be looking for new stuff popping up, and I said at the time, these guys have gotta know something we don't.

ED DAMES Well, uh I worked with those guys, and most of them are virologists. Unfortunately, uh viruses get the most of the money today, but there are other things, other changes, bacteria, um, people, there's a lot of species of bacteria, they, they mutate a little bit faster than viruses, and uh,

we are not going to be, we, our civilized uh, industrial nations are not going to be able to keep up with the kinds of epidemics and pandemics that spring up, we're not going to be able to, to produce vaccines fast enough, they're, they're going to outrun our ability to research them, and chase them

with vaccines, so we're looking at epidemics, and pandemics too.

ART BELL Have we already, have we overused, um, antibiotics, is that the problem, or is there another profound change that's coming, even, even beyond that problem?

ED DAMES As far as we know in the company, it appears that uh, it appears that it's an environmental problem, that the environment has so stressed the organism, the bacteria, um,

uh, that they're subject to greater numbers of mutations. Ozone alone, for instance, I mean, ionizing radiation when it hits us may produce skin cancer and melanoma, but a, uh, ionizing radiation when it hits a single cell animal, that's metastasis at, at uh, best, and a lot of mutations, lots of mutations, much more than has been the case in the last few millennia --

ART BELL So you're saying that what's is occurring to our upper stratosphere, atmosphere, is uh, like a cancer, that once begun, is going to eat everything alive before it's done.

ED DAMES It -- no, what I'm saying is that, I just used that as an analogy, there's many holes, the atmosphere is deteriorating, there are lots of holes that will begin to appear, small ones, letting -- not just one large ozone hole over the Pole --and that has gone unnoticed uh, uh, so far.

ART BELL Well I know that they've documented thinning of ozone across North America for example, somewhere between, trying to remember now, three and seven percent, something

like that, that will account for X number more uh, uh, skin cancer and so forth and so on, really quite serious, but you're talking about additional, actual holes.

ED DAMES Yes. I'm talking about a lot of uh, scattered shotgun uh, um, [?...] patchwork-type of holes in the ozone layer, I'm not certain everybody realizes uh, how serious this is, life could not have begun on earth until that, that ozone layer was in place, every time amino acids came together to bond, that, they were hit by, without the ozone layer to protect them, they were hit by ionizing radiation, and the links [?...], so that had to be in place before life could begin, and it needs to be in place if life is to continue, we're not going to evolve as a race, uh, maybe we're not meant to, unless we survive.

ART BELL Are we going to be able to continue to live above


ED DAMES Above ground structures will uh, will have to be made. This is why research like Biosphere Two is important, and those kinds of hermetically sealed units. We need first

of all, first and foremost, uh, some kind of a habitat to grow crops in, a very large habitat, my company has actually sketched uh, these kinds of habitats that will be used to grow crops, uh, these crops will be protected by high winds [transcriber note: he meant "from" the winds], and will have

enough light um, uh so that food can be produced by humans, and eventually these habitats for plants will become templates for cities, similar to Biosphere Two, it's important that we start these kinds of projects now, so that these technologies can mature, so that we work the bugs out

by the time we really need to migrate into these, below-ground structure, uh, and above-ground structures, they're going, are going to be necessary.

ART BELL But let's [talk about? ] numbers, I understand that you could do such a thing, grow crops even under those conditions, harsh as they could be, but numbers Major, you uh, even under the best of conditions with a crashed program, right now America feeds itself and a good part of the world.

ED DAMES Well we used to. Up until this year.

ART BELL Yeah -- without our farm belt, Major, and with what you envision, the numbers of people that could be fed would be astonishingly smaller at best --

ED DAMES That's right. I used to be called 'Doctor Doom' at the White House for other reasons, and um, I, I don't want to perpetrate necessarily that operation, so I'm not going to

get into numbers right now, I am saying that there will be despeciation at rapid rates --

ART BELL Yeah, I can read between the lines very easily. You, you think that it's uh, in some ways better off that people don't know all of, or how, the scale of this--

ED DAMES I think it's difficult for the everyday person now, I'm not, without me, um, prophesying if you will, the kinds of numbers we see in-house.

ART BELL Alright. Here's something from our last interview. After you had said most of what you've said now -- [horrible?], what we've just heard -- you said, I said what about you, where are you, you're in {Dames: Beverly Hills.} Beverly Hills, of all places, and I said, so what are you

gonna do personally, and you said, 'well I'm moving West and South,' and I said, to an island? and you said, 'something like that,' and this was -- and I said, well gee West is in the water -- um, not identifying specifically where your company was gonna go, but when you gave other people advice, you told them, 'go North,' {laughs} and so it hit me later, you're telling the population to go North, but you're saying, we're going South and West um, could you clarify that for us?

ED DAMES There's actually a number of uh, different places that we've looked at that are sanctuaries, I, I happen to be heading towards uh, some islands, yes, but, we know that Switzerland, the Swiss Alps, and uh, that area's also a sanctuary, I'll give you the reasons why: {Bell: All right.} they have mountains and very deep canyons to protect against hard winds. {Bell: That's true.} OK, they also have snow-packing glaciers, which provide a good source of water, uh,

you know, a known quantity, and uh, water's gonna be a real problem. So uh, and then the other reason is, those climates are cold, generally speaking, cold enough so that these bacteria remain fairly dormant in those environments, because I am telling you that bacteriological mutations are gonna be a real big problem, it's nature carrying out bacteriological warfare against us, like mother nature, or the earth, administering antibiotics to itself, anti-viral, and uh, and uh, we may be the disease in this case.

ART BELL That's very close to what the native Americans believe, that earth is almost a livingentity, um, and that we have insulted earth and continue to insult earth, and in fact you're saying that we have insulted earth to the degree that it's too late.

ED DAMES I think that, that yes, that's correct. I remember once uh, years ago, I found a pelican on the beach sitting very still, a brown pelican, and I, I picked it up, and it bit me a few times, I put it in the trunk of my car, I felt really bad for it, because it was covered with ants, small ants, and I took it to a vet, and the vet said hey we dusted the pelican with a, with a uh, um, a powder, an antibiotic powder, it's fine now, it was just sick. And all the sudden I realized that it, it knew to land and have these ants eat these lice that were attacking it, these mites that were attacking the bird, if it stood very still the ants would naturally pick off the lice and eat them, and the pelican

could fly away. So I actually prevented the pelican from uh, continuing this process, and it reminded me of this situation, this state of affairs, vis-a-vis Gaia or [?] or whatever you want to call mother earth.

ART BELL Well I've had a number of native Americans, um, on this show and on Dreamland. And chillingly, they have predicted big winds. Have you -- have you uh -- and I'm sure

you've heard some of that -- but I'm wondering, have you consulted with native Americans, have you traded any information with them, are you --

ED DAMES No, never, we uh, we really rely on our own methods for this, and years ago we were picking up winds, it took us a long time, by process of elimination and direct knowledge,

because that's what remote viewing is, to ascertain where these winds were coming from, I mean, we, we ran again an [?], is it nuclear war, is it uh, volcanic activity, is there a pole shift, on and on and on, we could not find the answer until we popped up in the upper levels of atmosphere and said uh oh, uh, there's no atmosphere, or it's chaos up here, so we had to check and double check our work, otherwise I would not be uh, telling you on the air --

ART BELL Well, I would think that governments, uh, the governments of the world, particularly in view of your track, would be more than a little interested in what you're saying tonight. Have you had any contact?

ED DAMES A little. A little. But it's going to be uh -- we're ahead of our time, this kind of technology is just out of the closet, it's young, it'll be on the streets as soon as we can get it on the streets, uh, with as many young people as possible, that's our target group, taking the high school

kids, and individuals in their 20's, our generation we think is a lost cause, not totally, but uh, we're staid and stoic Art, I'm uh, your age or thereabouts, and we don't -- old habits die hard.

ART BELL They do. Yes, they do. Um, so, you would advise people, move to colder climates, prepare, uh, stow away food -- what advice would you give?

ED DAMES Another thing is, a colder climate, or an isolated -- islands are good, 'cause islands are isolated generally speaking, they're isolated from a lot of traffic hopefully, a lot of human traffic, a lot of um, a source of bacteria, geographically isolated, and if they get a lot of rain, then

you've got fresh water, and if they have a lot of underground lava tubes or caves, then you have protection for high winds when they occur, and they have a lot of sunlight, because they're in uh, they in lower latitudes, they get -- experience a lot of sun, and food can grow very quickly, can

grow back quickly.

ART BELL Yeah I was gonna say, uh, if these winds descend on the central latitudes, then there will be climate changes elsewhere as a result of that. And so areas that previously have not been able to grow food might be able to? -- or areas that have been arid will be wet -- or what other changes will result from this?

ED DAMES Not sure. Just storms, vicious storms and chaos. I would not take too much of a chance trying to predict what might change and where it might change, uh, um, uh, because

there's, they'll be no continuity for crop growing, unless you get crops into a place where they're protected and, and, and the light is maintained and controlled.

ART BELL The key phrase is chaos, then.

ED DAMES The key phrase is survival! We, we need to be able to plan for survival, food, growing food the way we do now is not survival-oriented anymore.

ART BELL So rather than worrying about storing food up and having a big cache of food as people would be tempted to do, you're, you're more inclined to advise people to devise, to

devise safe and new ways to grow that food, because you're going to have to last a long time.

ED DAMES Yes, as communities and as governments, responsible governments, yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. But that's, that's with um, that's based upon a technology that taxpayers

paid for which is still very, very unknown, and in some uh, circles, construed to be the occult. So this is uh, this is a diff -- a hard sell on my part, it's much easier for us to find Unabombers and things like that, and convince people that it's real, then to try to sell doom and gloom.

ART BELL Well, uh, I would think the people that know your track record, the people that you worked with listening to this, their eyes must be getting wide, and their heartbeat must be quickening.

ED DAMES That was an "old boy" network, consisting of captains of industry that they'd contract -- it's a military industrial complex. Yes, many government officials are there

too, many congressmen, and so there, there is some um, there is an audience for that kind of thing, yes.

ART BELL What bothers me is that uh, of what you speak, all the first signs are already there, for example, the hurricane season last year, the unending -- I've watched the weather channel by the day, and I've watched it -- weather has been a hobby of mine for years, I used to chase tornados {laughs} -- and there are tornado boxes all _over_ the place, tornados and tornados and tornados as I have never seen before across North America. Again, the uh, the beginning of this, as I

take it.

ED DAMES Well we're looking at [?] economic catastrophe, uh, let's face it, we're not gonna have the money to be able to repair the kinds of damages that any more of these vicious storms will cause, so our economy will be shot first before uh, our infrastructure, the rest of our infrastructure. Uh, it's gonna get grim, particularly in the next uh, four and a half to six years, we're looking at very, very serious conditions environmentally.

ART BELL Now I saw somebody ask you on, on one of the programs that was on the videotape --

ED DAMES I think that might have been on the Discovery Channel, The Real X Files, the True Story of America's Psychic Spies --

ART BELL They call it the Real X Files {Dames: Mmmhmmn.} Uh, they said that -- or they asked you, well OK then, why haven't you predicted the stock market, why haven't you predicted lottery numbers, and your answer was that those are very small spikes in the future, and that they're much harder to read, and that you see the larger events muchmore clearly, is that true?

ED DAMES Very clear. Our, our students, early in the game, can take a look at large earthquakes, volcanism, those kinds of things, uh, quite easily, because the event's happening

now, it's a huge event, all of us are events really, but that's an event, geological, geophysical events are very big, it's as if our unconscious is alerting us for survival reasons to be on the lookout for these kind of things, like maybe we're "tuned" into uh, like cataclysms of a geophysical nature, more than we are other things. But that's just speculation on my part.

ART BELL Alright. Not speculation is something that we're gonna talk about next. As you know, I live, uh, adjacent to -- in fact, we have the closest broadcast facility to an area called "Area 51. "It has been an ob -- the object of great fascination for American people for a very long time, and you know something about Area 51, don't you?

ED DAMES I'll give you the scoop on 51.

ART BELL {laughs} Alright. Coming up next, you've got several minutes, so relax, Major Ed Dames from Psi-Tech is my guest, there is more, if you think you can handle it, coming next.


ART BELL Major Ed Dames, Psi-Tech's Ed Dames is here. Pretty sobering stuff. And this'll be right on target I think, we'll get back to the Major in a moment.


ART BELL Back now to Psi-Tech's Major Dames, and Major, Area 51, everybody's dying to know, what are they doing, what have they done, what are they doing at Area 51?

ED DAMES Area 51 is a test site, they don't build anything there per se, they may do modifications, but remember, it's a testing area {Bell: Right.}, things are built somewhere else

and brought in. OK. Uh, there's a reason why that kind of secrecy exists, and I'm gonna talk about that. Uh, that level of secrecy. When you're dealing with nuclear weapons, and defending the nation against nuclear weapons, uh, you need to have things protected, operationally secure, as well as secure in other ways, too. [?...] There are the set of satellites out there that, that many of your listeners know about, called DSP's, deep space platforms. These satellites look down on the planet earth, particularly places other than the United States, where signs of an intercontinental

ballistic missile launch, as well as other missiles launched. {Bell: Right.} They can see the hot [?inaudible...] and they can see other things that are classified, signatures and footprints of the type of activity that lead to the signatures, the [setting up?] of the missile, the things that are associated with that kind of a thing. Now, we have a problem though, because once a missile is launched, it is extremely difficult to inter[cept?dict?] that missile {Bell: That's right.}, by the time we get around to doing it, we may or may not be able to intercept and if we do, we don't know whether we're intercepting a decoy and wasting precious anti-ballistic missile defenses against a decoy, or the real thing. We have real problems there. So, what to do, what to do. If we see somebody allegedly gearing up to launch one, do we launch a first strike, or pre-empt it? If someone is

getting ready to launch, if a potential adversary is getting ready to launch a pre-emptive strike against the United States, and all indications to our intelligence community are indications and warning [?...] that's going to happen, what do we do? Well, the answer is, we wait, we wait until we see the missile take off. Now, that means we have to have an effective anti-missile, anti-ballistic missile defense for the United States, or, we have to do something else. And

that something else is what goes on in Area 51. There is another way to, to defend, or attempt to defend, against ballistic missiles, once they go ballistic, once they enter the earth's atmosphere over North America, uh, we really can't defend effectively against them. But there's something

else that we can do. If we can get to a missile launch site fast enough before an ICBM gets into the upper levels of the earth's atmosphere, we can kill it there, in the enemy's own country, in the potential adversary's own land, now you have to move really fast to do that and you run into all kinds of problems. But, when um, people like [?...] back years ago got together to build some really uh, esoteric devices, um, satellites and SR71's and all kinds of wonderful things, they

pulled together a group of very eccentric thinkers, brilliant engineers, who really didn't work well as a group, but if you really babysit these individuals and you're a good project manager, individuals, very brilliant engineers working together can come up with objects that uh, for all intents and purposes, appear to be alien. And uh, that is in fact what's happening at Area 51, you're seeing the limits of or technological base being pushed, because people, these engineers theoretically can develop all kinds of things that can exceed most of our wildest dreams, but we're limited by our material sciences predominantly, to what we can build. But still, when you build something that flies like a bat out of hell and it's coated with diamond-coated surfaces, very

expensive, can move at levels of Mach 18, something very fast, you can take it up in the United States or US held territory, beyond the ground, and in the area, in the neighborhood of an ICBM that has just taken off, kill it, disable it, and come back home. That's what's going on there. This is the nation -- this is our nation's Sunday punch.

ART BELL I believe it. We've been talking for I don't know how long, and getting rumors, and more than rumors, of craft that are flying in from the Pacific at _incredible_ speeds --

ED DAMES Well, and these, I mean, we have some very brilliant engineers in, in America, and they have been, they have been asked to come up with things that can -- that, that was their task, we have to be able to disable or kill uh, intercontinental ballistic missiles while they're still rising up above the potential adversary's --

ART BELL That's absolutely fascinating. So you're saying, with a fast response, you could get one of these incredible craft to a location where an ICMB is rising and knock that damn thing down, above the country that launched it --

ED DAMES That's right, moving like a bat out of hell -- now there's a lot of problems technologically and engineering-wise when do that. For instance, you have an ionized plasma

that surrounds, in many cases, surrounds the shell {Bell: Right.}, the skin, of a vehicle that's moving that fast, or [?] by the way, and how do you communicate with it? So that's something you have to overcome --

ART BELL So like re-entering astronauts, that go through a blackout period --

ED DAMES That's correct. The speeds get -- are like that or greater. There's another problem. One of the reasons that uh, things are so classified in this arena are because of the toxicity of the fuels, the environmental protection agency would never allow an operation like that. These fuels are so poison, so very very poison, that they could not essentially be used anywhere, [?...] disposed of effectively --

ART BELL Again, there's, because there's something there, because there is a lawsuit underway right now, by a number of people who have worked at Area 51 --

ED DAMES Yes, my, my Vice President, Jonina Douris, has informed me of that, a couple weeks ago --

ART BELL So, it's underway, and they claim they were toxically poisoned.

ED DAMES Uh, yeah, the fuels are -- there's a mixture of two fuels actually, that's aspontaneous combustion, uh, the Aurora for instance, the engines outside of the, the craft, after it gets to a certain [?..] of operation, and there are follow-on vehicles that are more esoteric, that use, the

attempted uh, electro-gravitational propulsion, those kind of things that people see hovering about the Area 51. All these are physicists's physics, and uh, we'll build stuff that can increase our capabilities to deliver this kind of Sunday Punch, because that threat's still very real out there. And -- nope, sorry -- all [transcriber: cannot decipher this sentence. I think he basically said, there are extra terrestrials but not at Area 51.]

ART BELL Alright. Uh, I've got a series of questions posed by fax and there's a lot of good ones here --

ED DAMES Great, I'm not done yet --

ART BELL Alright -- oh, by all means, go ahead --

ED DAMES OK, about the government's hidden UFO agenda. There's one other thing I'd like to talk about here, and that is, what we're hiding. If you remember Howard Blume's {sp?}book "Out there," which was fairly poorly written, but he talked about a UFO working group in the Pentagon {Bell: Right.}, I was a member of that, we even had a cover name for it to disguise ourselves, we called ourselves the advanced theoretical physics working group, we, and essentially we had

no charter to look at the UFO phenomenon, there was no money, there was no charter, we tried to hide our activities under General [Evanston St...?sp?] program, the SDI program, essentially attempting to develop, uh, software that could recognize something, uh, differentiate it between alien, airliner, satellite, those kinds of things. Um, those members were military officers, I was the youngest, the junior officer, at the time, and they were members of the military industrial uh, uh, community that were there to um, Lockheed Missile & Space, McDonnell Douglas, uh, companies of that ilk. And we were a bunch of wild and crazy guys who were sincerely interested in looking at this phenomenon. We could not coax money out of Presidents or uh Services, to really do anything with it, why, because there's no charter, after Project Bluebook and a few follow-on projects, there's [?] there's no national security threat there,and the Department of Defense, and the Intelligence Agencies are tasked with protecting the nation against other nations, or potential adversaries. There isn't any charter, and so there's no money for that, it has to be put into the civilian community, research, charter doesn't exist, um, congressionally or otherwise, to look at UFO things. Now, our satellites did pick up photos, pick up things, glowing objects hovering over bases, uh, both ours and other country's, and those are real photos, there are really glowing objects that defy explanation, that are enigmatic, that are, have been captured on satellite topography, but

they will not be released because they cannot be released. Number one, the place that we were looking at, those kinds of data are classified, what we are looking at, at any given time.

ART BELL Major, uh, there was a 20/20 program, I think it was 20/20, in which they documented objects that had appeared Soviet missile silos, and as a matter of fact, one of them

activated the launch sequence for a Soviet ICMB, and they, they continued to document it, it was this object above, and, and they went into launch sequence, there's no question about it. The Russians totally freaked out, tore everything apart, I mean everything, every panel out of there after this incident, tried to find out what had happened, and there were no answers, no answers, and there have been stories of objects hovering above our sites as well.

ED DAMES That's true. But I wanna get back to the -- that, that is correct, those events have happened, they are real, they are extraterrestrial in nature, I don't wanna go too deeply into that now, except, I wanted to make sure we understand that the government isn't hiding anything vis-a-

vis that, the satellite photography that can't be released, is because we do not want to give away -- I don't watch a lot of television, but if they suggested that some of these photographs can't be released because it would divulge the capabilities of the satellite, then that's correct, that's

the reason that this is so classified, some of those. And that's the only evidence that we have -- other than Art's Parts, of uh, of allegedly alien uh, activity. {Bell: Yes.} Now, there have been very very enigmatic things happen at US bases, but they remain unexplained, and any government that reports to have control of the populace, or maintain control of their citizenry, is not gonna release a report that says "we don't know what this is," you and I both understand the reasons why, for that.

ART BELL Well let me tell you a little story about Gordon Cooper, the astronaut. He said that he was at um, Edwards Air Force Base when a military film uh team was filming something or another regular duty, and they were out on a flight line, and they saw a craft come down, three legs

extend, the damn thing landed on the ground, they kept rolling, they had film of it, this is, this is Gordon Cooper now, and they started moving toward this craft, it rose into the air, the three landing uh, um, wheels or whatever it was extended into the craft and it just shot straight up, well

they had all this on film, they sent it to Washington according to Cooper where it disappeared for all time.

ED DAMES Well that sounds like one of ours. We, we had, the uh, the really, we retired the Air Force 71, what do you think we replaced that with? We've been testing little objects like that with tripod landing gears for quite awhile. What aliens use are something very, very different Art, and

uh, it doesn't look like that --

ART BELL Good point, and after all, it did come down at Edwards, which is an Air Force Base.

ED DAMES That's correct.

ART BELL So you're saying that's one of ours.

ED DAMES Yes, that was one of ours. That was one of our prototypes, and, and uh, that was the beginning of the end of the Blackbird program.

ART BELL There's a fellow down in Australia, Stan Deyo [sp?], I don't know if you know of Stan or have heard of him, but Stan uh, says a lot of things about our craft, just like you're saying, that we have these things, and have had them for a long time --

ED DAMES We take 'em off from one place and we land 'em somewhere else, just like we used to do uh, with the SR71, but we've continued to look to, to buy in, as a populace, to these conspiracy theories, I mean, uh, I and my Vice President announced at a uh, UFO congress in Germany that the Santilli alien is a hoax, it's a bag filled, under pressure, with a pump inside, that pressure's there so when you cut it open it looks like uh, fluids are oozing out, you notice that

there was no sound on the tapes -- actually I have not seen these tapes -- there's no sound because if there were, you'd hear the pump, the little pump that's pumping the, keeping that bag pumped up. {Bell: Huh. Fascinating. }But we keep, we keep uh, wanting to believe that, and meanwhile, there's something else happen. By the way uh, my company's working on a report that we'll, we'll put out on our website, uh, about [Lelande?sp?...21185], the star that has a solar system, with the new solar system {Bell: Yes -- yes, about eight light years --} -- yeah, we've begun to take a look at that, and that's kind of an easy target for us, so we, we're beginning to sketch the planets around that, there are three planets, one is a gas giant, two other small ones have their own moons, one five, another seven moons, and we're beginning to explore the uh, the surfaces of each one of those planets, uh, two small ones, planets, we call them planet Enoch and planet Erin. Uh, Planet Enoch appears to have organic matter, we'll take a look at that, and uh, describe it for uh, exobiologists, exogeologists, Planet Fiona, we call the gas giant, uh, that'll be the last uh one that we survey.


ART BELL With all you have to say about what has occurred to earth and the insult to earth, shouldn't we be, um, expanding our space program to look toward other planets, possibly uh,

that could be inhabited, um, by, by humans that don't really wanna live underground?

ED DAMES Well, uh, if one, if one thinks, uh, that there might be a Federation out there, um, I'm not so sure that a Federation would allow us to go out and trash another planet Art, um, {laughs} maybe we might have to take care of business here. Actually there, there, I, I mentioned an in-

house project, that Psi-Tech has, Project Starman, and um, uh, I can't talk about that at this juncture but {Bell: Even in a general way?} -- [pause] -- Mars. {Bell: Mars.} That's all I can say. {laughs} Watch Mars.

ART BELL We'll watch Mars. Alright, I really do have some interesting questions for somebody like you. One of them is, do you have anything to say about the nature of our soul, uh, he who looks at the kinds of things you look at might be able to answer that question, do we as humans have a soul, do we have something that lives past the physical life, do you believe?

ED DAMES Well, yes. That uh, that field, these days, the best words is "continuity of consciousness" {Bell: Yes.} that's, that's what the study is {Bell: That's right.}, it is one of the most fascinating projects I've ever been involved in, the jury's still out within our own ranks as to what's going on, but the answer to the question is yes, there's something that survives [?no doubt?...] our minds [?...] up however, which is an interesting development. When we remote

view a dying person, we see something split off, that we call the soul, and we cannot track that, that's beyond our capabilities. We know of other places that have very strange lifeforms, that we think might be where people are reconstructed, but we have no chain of custody {laughs}, so

we, there's a, there is a discontinuity between what leaves a, a dying body, and what we see in other places which we suspect might be worlds where personalities are recreated.

ART BELL So there's a sort of "dead zone" to it.

ED DAMES There's a broken chain of custody and tracking lines, uh, of personality essence, if you would, but our minds [strip off?], it's a very interesting phenomenon --

ART BELL It is -- Major hold on, we're at the bottom of the hour, stay right there, Psi-Tech's Major Ed Dames.


ART BELL Back now to Major Ed Dames, Major, uh, you've affirmed we have a soul and that when we die, you kind of lose track of it, um, as in a re-entry period, and then, it may be, is it your view that it is recycled, or do you have

ED DAMES I don't have a lot of thoughts, it's a very difficult thing for us to do, it may uh, seem odd that a military team that has supplied itself uh, under the, the [rubrick?] of uh, Advanced Training [?] this type of thing, but I was looking for really extreme challenges, and this was

the most extreme one I could find.

ART BELL Oh yes. It is the most extreme, the biggest question for mankind. Alright, try this one out. Those who can look ahead and see big uh, spikes, ahead of us, to the right, does such person dare look ahead to their own death?

ED DAMES You know, it's funny you should ask that, in training we have to be careful, a lot of times our trainees, um, will, I will actually give them their own lives, uh, what we call a personal trajectory, and I have to be careful that they don't go through the protocols too rapidly, because

they'll be perceiving their own death, and that can be a discomforting uh, thing. But yes, uh, you can perceive what appears to be, with high probability, very, very prominant milestones, or peaks, in your trajectory, including uh, the end of your life.

ART BELL Have you looked at yours?

ED DAMES No I haven't.

ART BELL I don't think I would either.

ED DAMES I, I may someday, I just think I'd rather not know right now. {Bell: I understand that.} Not that I'm a chicken, but it's uh, I think I'd rather spend my time thinking about other things.

ART BELL Alright, let's look left again, somebody down in Texas wants to know if you've ever looked back toward the big spike that would have been the presence of Jesus on earth. That time.

ED DAMES Yes. It's a training target. Uh, the crucifixion is a training target, and uh, the -- there was a real person, a real man.

ART BELL He was here.

ED DAMES Yes, Calvary is a training target that we have, it's uh, it's an advanced training target I sometimes give as the student's first solo, that's where they, they're skills are up to par enough on day 7 or day 8 of training where they have to work alone and uh, I leave the room, and so they work against unknowns as well as knowns.

ART BELL Alright, if you can look to the left, to when he was here, do you look to the right to his return?

ED DAMES We have not. We have not done -- there's so many things uh, that they use this technology against, uh, not, um, actually I haven't looked at that at all, it's not something that's in our thousands of training files and operational files, that is not there.

ART BELL Alright, uh, something current Major, there is, there have been reports of, a creature, I'm sure you --

ED DAMES Ah, the Chupacabra.

ART BELL Yes sir, I have to ask.

ED DAMES It's in the docket. It's in the docket, and when we work it, we'll provide it as a report on our web site.

ART BELL Oh you will? {Dames: Yes.} Uh, will you give people, and I'm sure that Keith is quickly linking to your site, but what is your web address again please?

ED DAMES Web address is www.transition-3000.de ... That particular distribution channel deals exclusively with Psi-Tech bulletins, reports and studies. That'll be available quite shortly.

ART BELL What about Tunguska? That must have been a big spike in the past, the event that may have killed off the Dinosaurs, a big transition point for earth.

ED DAMES Now, Tunguska was about 1906 or 8, if I'm not mistaken.

ART BELL Oh yes, you are correct, I'm sorry --

ED DAMES Yeah [?...] the KT event. Yes, it looks like a KT event did uh, kill off the dinosaurs or, possibly lots of things during the Jurassic, but it did something else too that's very interesting: it appears to have sideswiped Mars, to the point where it uh, it, it really disabled the atmosphere and uh, sort of set into motion a dynamic which robbed Mars of its atmosphere.

ART BELL There is thought to be, and I had a physicist on the show last night I know you heard {Dames: Yes, I enjoyed listening to part of that.} and he said that they think there may be a very, very great deal of ice just under the Martian surface, that which used to be water which was above ground. Now, we're getting dangerously close to your Starman program which you seem very disinclined to talk about {Dames: {laughs}.} Yeah {sighs} that's what I thought. So, uh, think

Mars, I guess we'd better settle for Think Mars. All right, um, I've asked a lot of questions --

ED DAMES Uh, you'll recall that we've uh, that both the uh, the Russians and the Americans have lost their eyes and their ears around the planet Mars, and uh, I think, you remember that uh, in August a few years back we lost a uh, spacecraft {Bell: I recall.}, and uh, Psi-Tech has published a uh, report -- we actually did a contract for the Russians, the Russians approached Psi-Tech asking what happened to Phobos Two in 1989, what, uh, this was a spacecraft the Russians

launched uh, called Phobos Two, second in a series, and uh, it was uh, it was, uh, met its demise shortly after entering Martian orbit, in the Spring of 1989, and uh, Psi-Tech was contracted to look at that and see what happened to that spacecraft.

ART BELL And what did you see?

ED DAMESWell, there was a uh, a very interesting machine that rose up from the surface of the planet to meet yet another machine that was in orbit, a different type, both these machines, quite, almost sentient vehicles if you will, unmanned, actually converged on uh, Phobos Two, and one

actually came in contact with it. And uh, the rest is in the report. I'll, I'll have that report on uh, available to listeners, in the next couple months.

ART BELL Alright. You train people to do what you do. And you do so now in a very intensive, seven day course --

ED DAMES Nine day. Nine day, it's actually ten, the students are required to take a midcourse break.

ART BELL Required to, in other words, it's so damn intensive, they've gotta take the break?

ED DAMES Yeah, they do. It not only is intensive work-wise, it's, it changes their lives forever. One can no longer look at, at things the way they did, uh, after this [?] this course.

ART BELL Major do you accept anybody, or is there um, some sort of litmus test, or test that you apply to those who would wish to take training with you?

ED DAMES There is, uh, the training, the training is expensive, it's $4500, so, that uh, limits a lot of people. But, our general litmus test is that a student must be diligent, confident, and patient. That's all we need.

ART BELL Um, are there a lot of people who don't make it through?

ED DAMES Mn -- only a few, only a few, and those are the ones that lack one of the aforementioned.

ART BELL Mmhmmn.

ED DAMES We need stable people, they have to be emotionally stable, uh, they're gonna be undergoing some [?...] "Oh my god," and they uh, two or three [?] words, to the point where

they perceive things that they may wish they'd never seen.

ART BELL May wish they'd never seen. Is it, is it, what do we know of the nature of the threat of the future Major, um, knowing some of the things that you know, can we change them, and if we can, should we?

ED DAMES I don't know, I -- I assume that [corporately?] as a race we can change things, because I know that we have a certain range of uh, response, uh, to change -- we can change

things within a certain range as individuals, so I assume that extends to us corporately. Whether or not we should is an ethicalological uh, problem, and uh, I just can't answer that, I'm just an average guy.

ART BELL Um, knowing some events that are coming, and I don't know whether you can, you know you probably cannot perceive the smaller events, but have you, uh, corporately, experimented with the ability to modify what appears to be the unmodifiable?

ED DAMES That's [rather typological?] when you think about it, because uh, how would we know, really, we don't have a way of double checking, we run into a double paradox if we do

that, if we remote view something, get feedback on something that we would plan upon doing, did we in fact, uh, affect it working first, the chicken or the egg, did we in fact affect the event, or did we _effect_ the event? And that's difficult, it gives me headaches to think about. Um, I don't

know how much leeway we have in changing the future. Um, it may be that the things that we as remote viewers perceive are only those things that have reached a hundred percent likelihood in some other dimension, [in far out?] as data [?] we may not be able to perceive things that, that uh, are less than 100% probable. I don't have the answer to those questions yet, nor will I probably ever, I, we do not do research, we are -- we'll allow our students to do that in the future. [?...applied?]

ART BELL OK. Gordon Michael Scallion is a good friend of mine. He's been on the show many times. He does prophecy based on what he described as "seeing three TV screens," or

three visions, he likens it to three TV screens, with two of them being very pale pictures, and one of them being bright and very colorful. Can you imagine that with what you do, as sort of a, the more likely future, the more likely scenario?

ED DAMES No, we, we're, it's linear in our terms, it's time and uh, trajectories, space, space-trajectories of entities, in this earth and its, and its humans, we see as linear. We

don't, we uh, what we perceive as remote viewers, vis-a-vis the future of the earth in terms of the next hundred years is grim as hell, there is nothing bright about it. Except to say that our children's children will have to rebuild the planet, and that's [some real character?...] building opportunity for them.

ART BELL Do you have children?

ED DAMES Yes, I have two, a 12 and a 14 old, and I have uh, uh, two stepdaughters.

ART BELL Given the opportunity to have more children, would you?

ED DAMES Yes. Yes, I would.

ART BELL So you have hope.

ED DAMES I have -- oh, I, I have never said I did not have hope, I just said that uh, we're gonna be running a gauntlet here, and it's going -- it's an adventurous time to be alive, it really is, it's -- like I say, there's some real character building opportunities ahead for us, I mean, the big things

are the ones that really build character, that's a personal opinion.

ART BELL Earth changes, Major, earthquakes, that sort of thing. What do you see?

ED DAMES [pause] Beyond all that, humans are more durable. We go, we appear to undergo some changes. Humans appear on, uh, a couple of generations from now to be more durable. We

are uh, a little bit tougher, thick skinned allegorically, um, in terms of earth changes, only what -- only what [?] my company stands by, and that is again, the high winds and the, and the, the atmospheric, geological changes that I've already talked about.

ART BELL And the babies.

ED DAMES That's just a piece of the action, one thing, and when, um, by telling mothers about this problem or potential problem, and alerting them to the fact that -- [?...] and the flag will go off when babies start to die. If this, if this knowledge gets out that this kind of [prediction?] gets out,

and that's why it's so important for us, for Psi-Tech to be correct in the public eye, my corporation has really got to double check and triple check its work before we go public, if we have, if we, attain that degree credibility in the public eye, we really will be able to save lives. Not all of

them, and people will still poo-poo the very existence of this type of thing -- others will listen, and we'll scare people enough, we'll scare mothers and fathers enough in some instances where they will take their babies off of uh, you know, hormone-injected milk.

ART BELL Mother's milk, then.

ED DAMES Mother's milk, that's the way to go, yeah.

ART BELL And otherwise, consider a move to a Northern latitude.

ED DAMES Uh, I would uh, a Northern latitude, or as a community, start thinking about how communities could build structures uh, to weather these storms. And to grow food.

ART BELL Alright. Major, it has been a serious, seriously interesting night. And um, a lot of people are going to reflect very carefully on all you've said, and it's gonna have scared a lot of people, but I guess you mean to do that, don't you.

ED DAMES Uh, again, I was called Doctor Doom at the White House, and uh, I guess I earned that uh, but the truth [?] responsibility, and it isn't always uh, always pleasant and fun and entertaining, we as Americans love to be entertained {Bell: Yes.}, this is not very entertaining, but it's very true. And the tools that we teach, that again, tax dollars paid for so many years of research and operations, uh, is a tool that can discern direct knowledge and truth, and uh,

we'll try to get that in the hands of as many young people as possible in the future.

ART BELL The um, the people who directed those tax dollars, if they heard this, this morning, and I presume many of them did, are they really upset with you for this?

ED DAMES I think a couple may be, and are already, but others like uh, Stansfield Turner, former head of the CIA, would not be at all. We tend, in our eleventh hour of life, to, to change, often times I have a little practical exercise, I move along to the moment just before I die, and I

look back along to the left and I ask myself at that point, um, problematically, is there anything I regret? And if I can find something I regret then I make sure take note of that, so I don't let it happen, I don't have any roads not taken uh, that I regret not taking, that's a good exercise to do.

ART BELL So uh, in other words the old saying's operative, "Live every day as though it were your last. "

ED DAMES That's correct. And if I do have to go soon, then I wanna go out in style, I do want one of those Art Bell watches.

ART BELL Alright, well I will see to it Major. And I want to thank you for being here this morning.

ED DAMES The pleasure's mine.

ART BELL And if you continue to listen, I'm sure you will hear quite a bit of reaction, mine too. Want a copy of this program? 1-800-917-4278.


[end transcript]


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